Hugh and Elizabeth Have a Little Conversation

His father was waiting for him outside her door.

‘Has she agreed to the terms yet?’ Hugh asked.

The old man shook his head and frowned. ‘I swear she’s as stubborn as her father but whereas he was admirable, it’s an evil trait in a woman.’

Hugh smirked. ‘Show me a woman who isn’t, at least in some measure.’

‘But she is unsufferable. All that time I’ve had to put up with her demands and her tempers and I have never shown any ill will. Never! God’s truth Hugh, she was sent to make me suffer.’

Hugh bit back a smile. ‘I’ll go and talk to her, father. You look tired; you should rest.’

‘Rest? Bah! I never got to this position in life by resting! You see what you can do - I’ve got some business to settle with one of my tenants. At least he should be easier to deal with.’

Watching his father stride away with the energy of a man half his age, Hugh finally allowed himself that smile. The old man was no match for anyone as a courtier but he had never learned to understand women - their weaknesses, their fears. He, at least, knew what it took to make even the most stubborn witch change her mind. He entered the room without knocking.

Elizabeth spun around from the window. Short and slight of figure, nevertheless she was no frail maiden. With her red hair, pale skin and a glare that would shame a gorgon, she managed to intimidate most who crossed her path, even, it seemed, his father.

‘Greetings, my Lady Elizabeth.’

‘What do you want? Oh, wait one moment, it’s not hard to guess: Goodrich and Painswick. The same thing, every time. Well, it’s the same answer too. I shall not sign over any of my lands, not while my body yet draws breath.’

Hugh smiled. ‘It is not wise to tempt fate by such statements, my lady. Often the devil hears instead of God.’

‘Do you threaten me, my Lord?’

Hugh shrugged. ‘Take it as you wish; you usually do.’

‘Did you come here just to insult me? If so, I have better things to do with my time than listen.’

‘Do you? I’m pleased to hear that you find so much to do in our custody. No, my lady, I did not come here to banter words. You were right the first time: I came to seek your submission of Painswick and Goodrich.’

‘Then Devil take you, Despenser. It is bad enough being kept on your father’s manors and denied a husband without being robbed of my inheritance too.’

‘Two properties is hardly being robbed, Elizabeth. I doubt you’d hardly notice their loss. As for being kept here, you know perfectly well you’re far too much an important commodity to be allowed at will for every jack man to try for your hand. Anyway, I offered you my son as a husband.’

‘Do you think I would let any blood of yours taint my line? Anyway, how do I know that as soon as I bore him an heir you wouldn’t have me conveniently disappear.’

Hugh smiled and shook his head. She truly believed that he might have her killed; maybe she had heard some of the common rumours of things he was supposed to have done - Lady Baret for example. Never mind, let her think that way; it might work in his favour.

‘What, no words, my Lord? Perhaps then you would care to leave me to looking at something more pleasing to my eyes.’

Hugh crossed the room to her in three huge strides and grabbed hold of her left arm, his fingers closing around it so hard he knew they would leave bruises. ‘Enough of your disrespect, Elizabeth. Would you rather be imprisoned in a castle tower instead of a comfortable manor? It could quite easily be arranged if the rumour of a plot to abduct you were to surface.’

He glared down into her face and noted, with satisfaction, her defiance had suddenly melted into fear - just as he had intended.

‘My lord… please… take your hand off me. You are hurting me.’

‘I have not even started yet. You disrepect my father, and my family. You refuse an offer of marriage to my son. And yet you take all the fine food, wine and servants that we have to offer. I call that ungrateful. Well, it is now time to pay up. You will give us Painswick and Goodrich, as agreed, and after that little display just now I suggest you offer the remedy of another manor too - just to soothe my father’s hurt feelings. How about Swanscombe?’

Despite being terrified, Elizabeth still managed some strength to shake herself free. ‘Not Swanscombe! You can have the other two, but leave Swanscombe alone - it was my mother’s favourite.’

Hugh smirked. ‘No deal. Painswick, Goodrich and Swanscombe or else you will find life will be a lot less bearable from today. I have a nice little room at Caerphilly which would suit you well. It’s basic and you’d only have two servants, but at least it would be dry - unless a gale is blowing from the west. I might visit you from time to time but otherwise I’m araid it’s the sort of place where you would be - after a while - forgotten. Last chance Elizabeth.’

She glared at him. No-one had ever dared to speak to her this way before and for once she could find no rejoinder, no way of verbalising her rising anger. Before she could stop herself her hand flew upwards and across his face, leaving an angry red mark. For a brief secong the shocked look on his face was gratifying, then he grasped her wrist and thrust her away from him.

‘Bitch! If that’s the way you want it then be prepared to leave at dawn tomorrow. You keep on about being held captive: maybe it’s time you discovered what that truly means.’

He started to turn away as she sank to her knees where she stood. ‘My lord, please. Please forgive me. You can have them - whatever you want, just don’t take away any more of my freedom.’

He turned back. ‘Painswick, Goodrich, Swanscombe. That’s all I want - oh, and a bit more respect towards my father. If you learn some better manners then you may have more chance of pleasing a husband - if you ever have one.’

Leaving her weeping on the floor, Hugh went to find his father. After telling him he’d secured the lands, he decided he would go riding in the woods. A good gallop would help to clear away the taint of what he had just done; only then would he be able to return to London and face Eleanor.

Draft 1 25/01/08

Elizabeth Comyn and the Despensers Pt2

The Pembroke Inheritance and the Strange Tale of Elizabeth Comyn
Part 2

The most-often heard version of what happened to Elizabeth Comyn goes something like this: Elizabeth was taken prisoner at the manor of Kennington by the Despensers and held in captivity at Woking and Pirbright until, by violence or threats she was forced to hand over the manor of Painswick to the elder Hugh and Goodrich castle to the younger Hugh. Oh yes, and there was that fine she had to pay them too - varying from £2000 to £20,000, depending upon whom you read.

Such a story has been presented in historical works, both old and new (Fryde, Weir etc) as positive proof that the Despensers were evil men who would stop at nothing to get their hands on land and money. Imprisoning vulnerable girls and frightening them into submission was all in a day’s work or so it would seem at first sight.

However, when one explores the incident properly, nothing is as black and white as the writers of the above would have us believe. In fact, a lot of exaggerated conclusions seem to have been reached from just a few facts. Maybe it is time to redress the balance a little and look at other ways these facts could be interpreted. In other words, it is time to give the Despensers a fair hearing.

First of all, the imprisonment issue. From the first part it can be seen that Elizabeth was an important woman not only because she was an heiress to Pembroke but she also had a claim through her bloodlines to the Scottish throne. In other words, politically, she was a potential hot potato. It is possibly because of this that we find her, in 1324, still unmarried in her mid-twenties (Fryde tells us that she is a teenager but this is wrong - Elizabeth was born in 1299). Most women of position and wealth were married long before this age, usually forming alliances that were politically or financially beneficial to their family. As her father was dead (and due to her importance), King Edward would have most certainly had a hand in deciding who she should marry. Obviously he wouldn’t want anyone that could cause him trouble either in England or in Scotland.

It is my theory that, because of her ancestry and potential inheritance, she would have made an attractive target to any would-be abductees or, for that matter, anyone loyal to Bruce who wanted her out of the way. Therefore I feel that she was placed in the custody of the elder Despenser more as an act of her own (and the King’s) protection than anything else. After all, the King trusted the Despensers above all, so who else would he have chosen? In all the accounts of her ‘imprisonment’ there is no reason to believe that it was anything other than fairly comfortable. If they had been really mean they could have forced her to take the veil (as was common then, especially when Mortimer got hold of the reigns later on), but instead they chose to keep their options open.

So the reason that Elizabeth was at Kennington in the first place is possibly because she was under protective custody. Another theory put forward by Natalie Fryde in The Tyranny and Fall of Edward II 1321-26 is that she was there because she was betrothed to Hugh the younger’s son and heir, Hugh (the even younger). In this case the Despensers’ would have obtained her share of inheritance through marriage (it has also been put forward that when the Despensers gained the wardship of Laurence de Hastings, the little lad was also betrothed into the family - this time to one of Hugh’s daughters). Fryde dismisses that either marriage took place and that nothing further was heard about it. However, there is a writ of 1231 which states:

Memorandum of errors which were made in the making of the pourparty of the inheritance which was the earl of Pembroke’s by Hugh le Despenser, father and son, and Master Robert de Baldok, then chancellor, and of their agreement who had assumed to royal power, by reason that Laurence, son and heir of John de Hastygg, married the daughter of said Hugh the son, and the son of the said Hugh married Elizabeth Comyn.

This creates a puzzle. Did the two heirs marry into the Despenser family or not? Inquisitions have been known to be unreliable, so this statement is possibly a clerical error or a misunderstanding. Further, such prestigious unions would surely have been lavish and very public affairs and would certainly have been recorded somewhere. To my knowledge, there are no such accounts. In my discussions with Susan Higginbotham, she points out that when Hugh the even younger married Elizabeth de Montacute in 1341, there was no mention in the dispensation of any previous marriage or betrothal. So, looking at the facts it is possible to draw a reasonable conclusion that Elizabeth may have been betrothed to Hugh the even younger, but for some unknown reason the marriage did not proceed.

The accusations against the Despensers are very clear in stating that they obtained Elizabeth’s lands through threats of violence and prolonged imprisonment. For example, an endnote in Fryde quotes an entry from C.A.P., p. 274; Rot. Parl., p.22: ‘Et par enprisonement et par duresces et par cohercions tant come ele demurra en dure prisone a Purfrith fust la dist Elisabet costreint a faire le reconissances des Fyns avant nomez…’. I have not yet been able to ascertain a date for this but I will place money on it being after the Despensers’ deaths, as do most of the accusations. Isabella and Mortimer seemed determined to heap the blame on them for as many evils as they could think of. Of course, not all of them were made up: the Despensers were certainly responsible for many unjust acts of land-seizing and holding people to false recognizances (however, we must also remember that others committed the same crimes - both before and after the Hughs. In other words they weren’t unique in what they did, except maybe in the scale of it!). Nevertheless, Isabella and Mortimer, as well as all those dispossessed by Edward and the Despensers were certainly not above a bit of negative propaganda - spin wasn’t invented in the twentieth century after all. Unfortunately, the accusations, even some of the most ridiculous, seem to have been accepted verbatim by historians down the centuries. Interestingly, the contemporary chronicle Vita Edwardi Secundi has no mention of any wrong being done to Ms Comyn, and its author was certainly no friend of the two Hughs.

The next thing we must look at is Elizabeth being deprived of her land, through the aforementioned threats of the Despensers. To read the historians, you would think that the poor girl had been stripped of everything. However, to look at this a little less hysterically, it is a good idea to see just what the earl of Pembroke actually left to her. She inherited:

Goodrich castle; the manors of Painswick, Noyton and Whaddon in Gloucestershire; the manor of Bampton in Oxfordshire; the manors of Collingbourne Valence and Swynton Valence (Swindon) in Wiltshire, Hertfordingbury in Hertfordshire, Polycote and Doynton in Buckinghamshire, Swanscombe and Nelton in Kent; part of Shrivenham manor as well as property in Fernham in Berkshire. Added to this was also Arnyng in Suffolk various estates and parts of estates in Ireland.

As can be seen, Elizabeth was endowed with a great amount of land and property. Thanks to Kevin for the list by the way!

So, what did the ‘greedy’ Despensers take? The whole lot? Well, if they were as bad as they were made out to be, they certainly could have found a way to achieve this. Instead, only three properties from this list were handed over: Goodrich Castle, Painswick and Swanscombe. Hardly the theft of the year, I feel. How the Despensers got Elizabeth to hand these over will never be known and indeed some sort of intimidation may have been used. However, as I just said, if they had gone to that extreme, why not take even more - or even the whole package (as they would have had through the marriage). Maybe, and this is just speculation on my part - maybe the manors were handed over either as some sort of compensation for Elizabeth being allowed out of the marriage contract, or else they were taken as ‘expenses’ for her time in captivity.

I even questioned as to why the Despensers wanted those exact lands. After a bit of digging through the parish records of British History Online, I came to the following conclusions:
(1) Swanscombe was a pretty wealthy little estate and therefore just right for Hugh the Elder.
(2) The Painswick lands bordered, or were certainly very close to other estates that Hugh the Elder owned in Bisley, Gloucestershire. Such an acquisition would have broadened his holding there and perhaps made their administration more efficient. Once again, Painswick was quite profitable.
(3) Goodrich castle not only sat on the way to Hugh the younger’s lands in south Wales, it was also situated on the edge of the Royal Forest of Dean, over which he was given superior custody in 1322. The forest was also very profitable and a rich source of iron and coal, as well as being a royal hunting ground.

Then there is the question of Elizabeth’s acknowledgement of a debt owed to the Despensers. I have seen this written as £2000, £10,000 and £20,000 in various quarters. The Despensers seemed to use these recognizances to bind others to them in loyalty but why one was imposed on Elizabeth can only be guessed at. Maybe it was to ensure she didn’t try and get her lands back again when she eventually married. Or maybe it was just another money-making scheme. Either way, it is my feeling that the sum was more like £2000 as the other amounts seem a huge amount for her to pay (especially as they could just have taken more properties). Elizabeth did sue for the return of her lands -after the death of the Despensers, indicating that she gave them away under coercion. But then again, everyone seemed to be jumping on that particular bandwagon at that point, so here, motive would be a question (although she could have been telling the truth - who knows!).

Elizabeth did eventually get married - after the Despensers were dead - to Richard Talbot, (later to be 2nd Lord Talbot). He and his father had fought at Boroughbridge against Edward and had been captured and imprisoned. However, in 1325, Richard is mentioned as part of Hugh’s retinue so he must have been pardoned and changed sides. It is tempting to think (although there is no evidence at all for it), that Richard somehow met Elizabeth when she was in the ‘care’ of the Despensers and that they managed to arrange some sort of betrothal that only came to fruition after 1326. By the way, many historians inaccurately state that Elizabeth was married to Richard when she was ‘kidnapped’ and ‘imprisoned’, but this is not so. According to the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy they were wed between July 1326 and March 1327. As their first and only son, Gilbert was born in 1332, this does seem to be right.

So, in conclusion, although it is unlikely that the Despensers were whiter than white when dealing with Ms Comyn, it is also unlikely that they behaved in the despicable manner as described by their enemies. This post was compiled mainly on secondary sources (which are often so hostile to the two Hughs) but by using some common sense and not being seduced by the sensationalist propaganda of a maiden in distress, the truth may still be glimpsed. Of course I still have more work to do on this theory, especially on primary sources in the summer. If anything changes, I will do another post (and eat humble pie!), but until then, in the case of this individual charge against the Despensers - I arrest my case!

Thanks again to Alianore, Susan and Kevin for their help in preparing this post.

Elizabeth Comyn and the Despensers Pt1

Finally…. After a baptism of fire, teenage birthday parties (that lasted a week!), housework and tax returns, not to mention having to rewrite everything I thought I had right (and didn’t), here is my maiden non-fiction post on this blog! Part 1 just deals with the background, really. Part 2 will really get into some nitty-gritty exploration of what we know about Elizabeth Comyn as well as some speculatory theories on why things happened as they did.

If I have missed anything vital or just got it completely wrong, please let me know. I plead my case of being a creative writer rather than historian!

The Pembroke Inheritance and the Strange Tale of Elizabeth Comyn
Part 1

Aymer de Valence, Earl of Pembroke, died suddenly on 23rd June 1324 at Compiègne in France, leaving a large inheritance of land and estates. Ideally, these should have gone to a son or a brother, but unfortunately he died without issue and all of his brothers had also previously perished. This meant that the vast Pembroke estates passed instead to the children of his two sisters, Joan and Isabella de Valence. To look at their claims it is probably easier (and less mind-boggling!) to examine them one by one:

Elizabeth Comyn was the daughter of Joan de Valence and an extremely important Scottish noble called John Comyn (also called the Red Comyn for some reason - his father was called the Black Comyn). Alianore has done a brilliant piece on Elizabeth’s ancestry and Scottish connections here so I will try and summarise it briefly for the purposes of this piece. The Red Comyn was the Lord of Badenoch and part of the Comyn Clan, a family that were at the centre of Scottish politics. The uncle of Red Comyn was John Balliol, Scotland’s king from 1292 to July 1296 when he was forced to abdicate by Edward I and taken prisoner. This caused a great deal of political unrest in Scotland between those who were still loyal to Balliol (such as the Red Comyn and William Wallace) and those who sought to claim the Scottish throne for themselves (Robert the Bruce). The Bruces and the Comyns were traditional enemies, but John Comyn agreed to meet with Bruce in Greyfriars Kirk on 10th February 1306. What they met to discuss and what exactly happened is not known, but the Red Comyn was assassinated, probably by Bruce himself, who then took the throne.

Joan de Valence and her children, John, Elizabeth and Joan, fled back to the safety of England. This was not just because of being family, but also because, through their bloodline, they probably had a better claim on the throne than Bruce himself. As Alianore says: ‘By the rule of primogeniture, the Red Comyn had a better claim to the throne of Scotland than Robert Bruce, which he passed onto his children. (The Comyns/Balliols were descended from the eldest daughter of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon, while the Bruces descended from the second daughter).’ By the way, if you’re wondering why all this Scottish stuff is important, hopefully it will become clearer in Part 2!

Back in England, the children grew up in safety, but John was killed at the battle of Bannockburn in 1314, fighting for Edward II against Bruce, his father’s murderer. By this time he had married Margaret Wake and had a son named Aymer. Unfortunately the little lad died in 1316 and Margaret later remarried Edmund of Woodstock, 1st Earl of Kent (and half-brother to Edward II).

Joan, the eldest daughter (probably born about 1295 but we can’t be sure exactly when), married David Strathbogie, the Earl of Atholl, who was loyal to Edward II, despite his father having been in opposition to Edward I (for which he was executed). There are mentions of them having two children: David, the eldest (1308-1335) and Adomar (d. 1402). Joan and David both died in 1326, just after Edward was deposed.

Elizabeth was the youngest Comyn daughter, having been born on 1st November 1299. There is nothing heard of her until the Pembroke inheritance issue. At this point, she is to be found living at Kennington, one of the manors of Hugh Despenser the Elder. This alone seems odd, but what is more unusual is that, in 1324 she was around 25 years of age and unmarried. For such an heiress this seems to be a strange state of affairs and one that I shall go into more in Part 2 (when all this preparatory explanation is out of the way!).

The other Pembroke sister, Isabella, was married to John de Hastings, 1st Baron Hastings. They had a son - another John de Hastings: 2nd Baron Hastings and Baron of Abergavenny, The elder Hastings, after losing his first wife, took as a second wife Isabella, the widow of Gilbert de Clare and daughter of Hugh Despenser the elder (with me so far?) and had three more children with her despite the huge age gap. John the elder also seemed to be a close colleague of Despenser’s from the 1290s until his death in 1313. It is very easy to get mixed up between all the Johns and Isabellas, and even Natalie Fryde, in The Tyranny and Fall of Edward II 1321-1326 gets confused by claiming the junior John de Hasting’s son by Juliana Leybourne, Laurence, is actually the son of Isabella de Valence and therefore the elder Despenser’s grandson. This is not so.

After Pembroke’s death, the Despensers seemed to fall out with the younger John de Hastings, forcing him into the recogizance of a huge sum of £4000. Upon the death of de Hastings in January 1325, his son Lawrence was just 5 years old and a minor. His wardship was awarded to the elder Despenser. However, there is nothing too sinister in this as Lawrence’s mother, Juliana de Leyburne, seemed to be on good terms with both Edward and the Despensers. Edward gave her the freedom to marry to marry her second husband Thomas Blount ‘if she pleases’, a rare thing in a time when women of status usually had their husbands chosen for them. Also, Juliana was a very rich woman in her own right and, despite being a widow, her lands were left alone by the Despensers. There is more about this on Alianore’s blog here. I have also found a few references in British History Online (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41919) about his manors and lands being held for him by the King.

The other beneficiary of Pembroke’s death was his widow, Marie de St Pol (or Châtillon), whom he married in 1321 (not in 1324 on the day he died as some stories claim). She had, as some of her dower, Pembroke lands in south Wales, an area into which Hugh the younger was seeking to expand his influence. Aided by the King and various tame officials, the Despensers managed to divest her of certain estates as well as sell off cattle and livestock for well under their going rate. According to Natalie Fryde, the Countess was left almost penniless.

Hopefully this post has given an idea of some of the background of the story of the Despensers and Elizabeth Comyn. In Part 2 I will look at some of the accusations against the Despensers with their land-grabbing ideas and will try, in part, to present a case for the defence m’Lud.

An Encounter Between Hugh and Mortimer at the Feast of the Swans 1306

Hugh hung back near the wall as the tables were cleared for the dancing and entertainments. He watched his newly dubbed comrades laugh and joke with each other, their bellies full of food and their heads of wine. In contrast he hadn’t eaten much and had managed only a few sips of wine. It felt like he was seeing them from another room, maybe even another country. He knew most of them by sight, had even grown up with some of them in the Prince’s household, and yet, somehow at this moment, they all felt like strangers. Maybe it was the grandiosity of the occasion overwhelming him or else the fact that he was to be wed in a few days, but he felt uncomfortable. Pictures of the warm stables at his father’s manor of Soham suddenly came into his head and he found himself wishing fervently that he could be there, with only the company of the horses around him.

A hand upon his shoulder jerked him from his thoughts. He spun round to see the dark eyes and lopsided grin of Roger Mortimer. ‘Despenser! What are you doing back here? I thought you’d be cutting a pretty figure on the dance floor to prove to your bride to be what a good prospect you are.’

‘What do you want?’ Despenser asked coldly, shrugging the hand off his arm.

‘There’s no need to be like that, my friend; I only come to wish you well on your forthcoming nuptials. You’re a lucky man to have been given such a beautiful bride.’

Indeed, that was one thing Hugh could not argue with. He looked up to the dais where Eleanor sat close to her grandfather. At fourteen she still wore her dark hair loose; streaming over her shoulders, the light from the torches picking out the red in it. Pretty of face and slim of body, Hugh never stopped thanking his luck that the King had betrothed him to her instead of some plain flat-faced daughter of a lesser noble.

‘So what does she think of you?’ Mortimer asked.

‘I am sure she likes me well enough,’ Hugh answered, wishing the man would just go away.

‘That’s good. At least it will make up for her disappointment in other ways.’ At last, here it came: Hugh knew Mortimer would never have wasted his time just to come over and make pleasant conversation with him. He decided to ignore him and pointedly turned his back. Nevertheless Mortimer continued, his voice taking on a slyer tone. ‘After all, I’m sure she must have felt betrayed by her father when he agreed her marriage to a poor, landless squire, just to repay a debt owed by the king.’

His patience at an end, Hugh turned and grabbed Mortimer by the throat, pinning him to the wall behind. Around them, no-one seemed to notice, their wits dulled by the drink. ‘Think carefully on what you say, Mortimer. One day you will have cause to regret this.’

Roger made no attempt to fight back. He even grinned as if Hugh was no more threat than a fly. ‘Your threats do not scare me Despenser. Do not forget it was a Mortimer sword that put paid to your grandfather and I can guarantee that it will be a Mortimer sword that will finish you too if you dare to quarrel with me. You are nothing, and no-one. And you will die as nothing and no-one.’

Hugh stared into his eyes, seeing only mockery and disdain. He wanted nothing more at that moment than to smash the man’s head against the wall, to carve his heart out and throw it to the nearest dog. But he didn’t dare risk a confrontation here, in front of the king, and Mortimer knew it, was almost daring him to disgrace himself. Swallowing his anger, Hugh released him and took two paces back.

‘What, not man enough? I pity your wife on her wedding night.’

Hugh pointed a finger, the adrenalin coursing through his veins making his hand shake with rage. ‘I swear to God… to God, Mortimer, that I will destroy you and all your blood. I will not rest until it is so.’

Not giving his enemy a chance to reply, Hugh turned on his heel and strode off towards to door.